DISQUS

Aaron Mielke · 7 months ago

Thanks for this. I hope you have a lot of readers that really understand this. I built my Ellsworth Evolve, which is a pretty high-end frame, with X9 and my last ride was all X9. the wheelset is where you will realize your biggest gain in dropping weight. 100g of rolling wheel is much heavier than 80g of a rear derailleur!

Nice post!

198 · 7 months ago

Thanks Aaron. It surprises me when riders have RD's that are more expensive than their entire wheelset. That money can be spent better in other areas of the bike

Ken Hurd · 7 months ago

I gave up the dream of a full top-spec bike many years ago, and I agree with you that the money can definitely be better spent elsewhere (wheels, tires, heck, even a better saddle), but I think that the one piece that is often worth is (for me, anyway) is the rear derailleur.

Everything else, I can hardly tell the difference, but the crispness you get with an XTR/X.0 derailleur, especially when things get nasty and mucky is worth it for me.

With that said though, I go in know that this extra performance comes as a price... Both out of my wallet, and in longevity (as I find the higher end a part is the shorter it's lifespan)

Depends what you're looking for, but I guess unless you're racing, XT/X.9 is way more than reasonable for most.

198 · 7 months ago

@ Ken

Thanks for your input! In your situation (racing) the extra can be justified.

Jason Milliron · 7 months ago

*pfffft*

All rear derailleurs are overrated.

Mark D. · 7 months ago

its not about value its about BLING !!;-)

Mark D. · 7 months ago

and,if im not mistaken,this years XT was last years XTR anyway.Not sure how the sram compares.

Robb Sutton (198) · 7 months ago

@ Mark

pretty much the same deal Mark. And from what I am hearing (and my limited experience with) that SLX package is pretty sweet too.

FarmerG · 7 months ago

I agree 100%. Been completely happy with XT and 9.0 stuff.

Russell · 7 months ago

What bugs me is the complete bikes sold with high end derailleurs and mid-level shifters. You really can tell a difference in the feel of the different level shifters.

I am proud to say I have never splurged on an XTR front derailleur. Rear, yes, but I cannot find a way to justify the expense for the front.

jason griese · 7 months ago

thanks mann I had this discussion a few years ago when I got my 8500 with the XT. And same answers get good wheels for weight savings. I however am limited on this as I am 205 lbs and push the recommend limits of high end non cheap wheels. Maybe that would be a good review , Wheels /bike builds for the plus 200 crowd. anywhere from pedals to bottom brackets, wheels, girlfriends,high paying jobs where you can ride all day, good fishing spots, best pizza...

Kevin · 7 months ago

I actually hang back from the bleeding edge a little more - I still like the reliability of an 8 speed, so I went with X-7 components since that was as high as I could go at the time w/o jumping to 9.

Chris · 7 months ago

Also consider that every time XTR and XO get better so does the rest of the line. So this years XT or X9 is as good or better than XTR or XO of a couple of years ago, just without the carbon bling factor. And I totally agree with the assessment of where money is best spent on the bike upgrades.

jason griese · 7 months ago

I was thinking that if shimano were up to it I'd be willing to donate my time racing with top end bike with full xtr this year then the same bike next year with same bike an d full xt. Just trying to help

198 · 7 months ago

@ Jason

Great idea! We can start a full XTR team just for that purpose!

Kris Cunningham · 7 months ago

I run X.0 on my my V10 and i love it! Also the carbon XTR on my XC bike, i just bought a SLX deralieur(sp) and can't wait to see how it runs, i think SLX was a great move by Shimano.

198 · 7 months ago

I completely agree. The SLX package is supposed to be pretty smooth...but more durable than XT. Let me know what you end up thinking about it.

jason griese · 7 months ago

I'll wait by the mail box for delivery.

Yasser Dahab · 7 months ago

good points. I don't think XTR and XT used to be so similar in performance. In the past 5 years, that's certainly changed.

198 · 7 months ago

@ Yasser

I 100% agree with you. It is a great time to be a mountain biker as the technology and performance has improved rapidly.

Derek · 7 months ago

I run only XO drivetrain. Wish they would make a better front D so in the mean time XTR. Is it worth it at retail -no, shop cost -yes.

Rajko Hlisc · 7 months ago

Damn and i have X0, heheheheh.
But it's true what they are saying.

Scott Doran · 7 months ago

Like the way he thinks, I gave up on XTR and XO years ago and yes I have very nice wheelsets on all my bikes.

Robert House · 7 months ago

Personally I feel like the best place to spend the money is on a wheel set, then frame, then components. I tend to keep wheels longer than frames, which I keep longer than components.

The law of diminishing returns governs all of those things though - you wheels can only feel so good, and you frame can only be so light and stiff, etc. before the difference is negligible.

Right now I have a mix of XT and XTR components on the primary ride -- the difference between the two is very small anymore. They both shift very well and quickly (although since I put the xtr rear derailleur on I have yet to experience any chainsuck, but that may be the new chain too).

I have a wheel set from Dave (http://www.speeddream.com/mountain_disc.php) that outperforms any others I have had -- makes a big difference and real lightweight. But, I've said it before (and I say it again) the best way to reduce the weight on your bike is usually by taking it off of your own ass.

198 · 7 months ago

A high quality, hand-built wheelset can make all the difference in the world. Even some of the best frames out there perform poorly under bad wheels. People tend to forget that your wheels are your only contact with the ground.

Andrew · 7 months ago

What would you say about specs like saint... worth it or just a overkill buy. This is more of a AM/FR/DH question but I'm just curious.

198 · 7 months ago

@ Andrew

The Saint group is purpose built for FR/DH so I can see the justification there. If there were multiple lines to that group...then things may be different.

Luke S · 7 months ago

Spot on in regard to where to spend the money. High end rear D doesn't hurt ya but $ into a better wheel set is a definite improvement. Same theory as a good fork upgrade. Money well spent.

D Hauck · 7 months ago

Interesting article. I would agree that money on wheels is a better spend, but then again, if you have the wrong frame, none of it matters. What I do not like about the article is putting SRAM and Shimano in the same bucket. Yes, they do have versions based on price that mostly come with minor weight and blink improvements along the way. However, I think Shimano has goofed where I believe SRAM has proven the value. I have XO, X.9, XTR and XT. I have been through most of the versions of LX and XT during my 20 years of mtn biking. I have found that SRAM XO is not just bling. It is faster, lighter and rugged. XTR however is lighter, but is not much more than bling (even worse in some cases than XT). X.9 is good agreed, but XO is better. SRAM simply has more value in the RD and shifter arena than Shimano IMHO and the choice should be between XTR vs XO or XT vs X.9.

198 · 7 months ago

I have found SRAM to be more bullet proof on the trail requiring less need for adjustment over time.

I also like the design of the SRAM front paddle (closest to the front wheel) on the shifter over Shimano's. When Shimano went to the dual direction paddle...its not as hand placement friendly. The SRAM paddle is right where I want it.

Kiwirider · 7 months ago

It's not an issue on single speeds
Get back to basics, Enough said,

198 · 7 months ago

LOL...I have a rigid ss just for that reason! Keeps me honest.

benj.nazareno · 7 months ago

i too am saving up for a good set of wheels. currently use XTs and have to frequently have the bearins greased and serviced. no complaints but am looking at a red metal 1 or hope pro2 + DT Swiss rim set-up.

recently purchased an X9 set but the shifters kept on getting stuck after only 2 mos. of riding. and we usually ride on light to moderate terrain. with a couple of my riding buddies sharing the same experience in the past, decided to return them and trade up to the X0. will wait and see how they perform...

198 · 7 months ago

Ah! When you move off of XT hubs...you will never go back. It is one of those ignorance is bliss things...you don't know what you are truly missing out on until you switch.

Paddy D · 5 months ago

So, I am trying to do a custom wheel set and am having a difficult time researching hubs. Can you please help me with the top end, my son dosen't REALLY need to go to college hub, the almost top end, we can eat ramen noodles for a couple of months and the middle of the road not xtr from shimano hub? I would really appreciate a little input from you guys. Thanks

198 · 5 months ago

Paddy D

Take a look at the Hope Pro II hubs. The engagement is not at the level of the really high end (Chris King, I9, etc.) but they are high quality hubs that make for a great wheelset. If you want to drop a little bit more coin...check out the Hadleys. 72 point engagement.

Paddy D · 5 months ago

Sweet thanks for the help...

Paddy D · 5 months ago

Something I forgot to add to my previous query. I am running a 26 v-brake set up. Does the Hope II hubs come in a non-disc friendly set-up? Should've mentioned this before. Thanks guys...

HAROMAN · 7 months ago

I'm a huge SRAM fan and I think the x9 performs like the xo minus the carbon cage, it's a matter of grams less weight but huge price difference better stick to x9 for the same performance and a bang for the buck! +1 for x9!!

198 · 7 months ago

I have been saying that for awhile too. Add to that...the aluminum cage of the X.9 is a lot less prone to breaking. Why do you think they went to an aluminum backing with carbon outers on the '09's? Too many breaking on the trail...

foxiu · 7 months ago

if you want to have some 'pro' componets from top level groups in your bike buy... shifters. Rear derailleurs are expensive, and you can't FEEL if they works better. And shifters - you touch them many times, everytime you ride your bike, and you can feel the difference between "they works good" and "they works great"

sorry for my english, and greetings from poland ;)

198 · 7 months ago

I will agree that they have a better feel to them on the bike (the shifters). It also seems that the price gap on the shifters is not as high as the RD's. Maybe that is because they are out of eyesight in most cases.

brad gatewood · 7 months ago

Thanks for the article.

Actually I have the same question about Thomson components. I don't get it. I mean they look nice, and I understand the strength issue, but we're talking about components with zero moving parts. And most people could ride the same seatpost or stem for their entire life without breaking it.

Enlighten me.

198 · 7 months ago

When it comes to stem and seatpost decisions...stiffness plays a huge factor for me. I find that the Thomson products are stiffer on the bike making them more predictable.

From an aesthetics standpoint...they look just like the day you bought them 8 years down the road. While I love the adjustment on the Race Face posts...they look old after one day on the trail because I move the seatpost all the way down on dh sections. This wears off the logo almost instantly.

ajy129 · 6 months ago

Interesting article.
Have just gone to X9 RDR with X9 shifters. Previous XT. Am looking forward to see how the sram works.

Now how about a comparison of forks..... what of the various shades between reba/sid/fox rl100 etc etc. (My son keeps drooling over sids...)

198 · 6 months ago

Unless he is going to be a serious XC racer...steer him away from the SID. The Reba is a much better fork for regular riding. The SID is a purpose built component that is intended for primarily xc racing.

djorzgul · 5 months ago

my first post :)

I have x0 rear d. but older version with aluminum cage (not carbon) and I like it soo much. in fact complete sram's 1:1 ratio thing is in my opinion superb comparing to shimano's 1:2.
On the other hand I have x9 shifters since x0 are to pricey (more than double)... although I heard here and there that shifting is better with them, meaning that lever travel is a bit shorter, and by that shifting sensation is snappier... I'd like to try them anyway.

On the other hand everytime xtr/xt discussion is started I remember an article in some old national geographic bout several guys who rode across the alaska (or something like that), and they all had old-school black shimano lx components... so... you never know whats best until you test it really hard.

that's the reason why I still ride my cnc machined avid ultimate v-brakes... they work sooo good... and I don't feel like changing them soon...

bottom line... x0 is good, maybe just a bit better then x9. xt is better than xtr. slx is super good (my girl has it). only "bad" thing is heavy drive train...

huh... enough... I could write about bike all night long..

respect to all of you ;)

dj.

Eric · 4 months ago

I agree with the above, although I often get sucked into trying the latest and greatest. As far as SRAM stuff goes - I bought a Rocky Mountain Element TSC in 2000. It came with SRAM 9.0 SL stuff on it. This is about a year or two before they came out with XO. I am still riding that bike and have done 8 Leadville 100s on that drivetrain and it still works beautifully. I just ordered an new Pivot Mach 429 and spec's it with XO. I found that it is about $200 cheaper if you run it with the Gripshift version instead of the triggers. I love the Gripshift setup, so I jumped on that. If you do not have a major need for triggers, it is a great way to get their top of the line stuff for a lot less $. It made the gap between X9 and XO a lot smaller. FWIW, the SRAM front derailleurs are not that great and I would recommend running an XT or even LX as not much has changed up front in 15 years.

Michiel · 2 months ago

and why would expensive wheels be better than average ones?
Stiffness only depends on the amount of steel in the spokes (and a bit on how well the wheel is spoked and tensioned, bu that's for free).
Weight differs hardly if you choose the right rims.

I believe in buying a lot of tires to finf the ones for your style, they make the difference in stability, light ride etc..

Robb Sutton · 2 months ago

Durability, engagement, stiffness largely depends on the builder - machine built vs. quality wheel builder, maintenance (again...quality built wheels need truing less often)